Author Topic: With the long demise of leaded what type of fuels do you use?  (Read 7598 times)

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Offline kittykadjaz

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Not having owned an older car since the removal of leaded fuels, what sort of fuel and/or additives do you use in the pre 70's models. Also are there any long term effects of the new fuels.

Jaz
Jaz
1961 6-window Sedan DeVille
Central Coast, NSW

Offline V16 Dreaming

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Re: With the long demise of leaded what type of fuels do you use?
« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2008, 01:50:46 PM »
Hi there. Two of the effects [ amongst others ] of lead were:  - to provide lubrication for valve seats    -and to increase the octane rating of the fuel used.   So, since most Cadillacs have moderately high compression engines a high octane fuel would usually help with the prevention of  detonation or " pinging ", and in some cases provide more power.  Fuel with a high octane rating would make sense -i.e premium 95, or perhaps 98 would be better. A lead additive poured in every time or every second you filled up would go a long way to protecting the valve seats.  Cheers, John

Offline GMPX

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Re: With the long demise of leaded what type of fuels do you use?
« Reply #2 on: June 05, 2008, 03:23:07 PM »
Some may scoff at this, but E10 Ethanol added fuel is what I use in both my Caddy and Commodore.
It's 95 Octane, 5c/L cheaper that 91 Octane and the ethanol has a 'slight' cylinder cooling effect. BUT, ethanol can be bad for old 60's fuel parts, I've run all new lines so I am not too worried about that.
And 10% ethanol is not much anyway.

Cheers,
Ross
Ross
Melbourne, The Nanny State
1964 Fleetwood - 6.0L/4speed LS conversion.

Online Bruce Reynolds

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Re: With the long demise of leaded what type of fuels do you use?
« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2008, 05:58:30 PM »
I used Premium Unleaded in my '60 CDV, and protected the internals with a "FuelCat" canister that the fuel would pass through, just before it went into the Carburettor.   It was 10.25 to 1 compression Ratio, and therefore needed the Premium.

All Cadillacs after 1972 (I think) were designed to run on Unleaded Petrol, as their compressions were lowered, and they had "Valve Recession" protection.

Personally, I won't run ant vehicle on any percentage of Ethanol added fuels, and when in USA in '02, I noticed a marked increase in fuel consumption, and a decrease in power when travelling in the states that used the poorer quality fuel.   I really hope we don't get the Oxygenated fuel here as well.

Bruce.>:D
Bruce Reynolds, Lindisfarne, TASMANIA
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
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Offline ronw

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Re: With the long demise of leaded what type of fuels do you use?
« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2008, 06:07:41 PM »
I use 98 Premium plus a Nulon lead substitute in my '59. I don't know if I could get away with spending less but it's running well and I don't drive it every day - so I'll stick with the good stuff.

I don't put ethanol in any of my cars.

BTW, my local BP has put signs on it's bowsers saying that all their "Standard" petrol could contain up to 10% ethanol. I have started filling up at Mobil. Is this a national thing for BP, or just my local (northern Sydney)?

Ron
Ron in Sydney
1959 Series 62 Coupe
1970 Eldorado

Offline Rick

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Re: With the long demise of leaded what type of fuels do you use?
« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2008, 06:47:49 PM »
I also use 98 octane and have a bottle of valve-saver in the glove box so when I fill up I chuck some of that stuff in the tank as well. Works for me.
Rick
Bligh Park, NSW
1960 Miller Meteor

Offline V16 Dreaming

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Re: With the long demise of leaded what type of fuels do you use?
« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2008, 07:07:55 PM »
From what I can gather ethanol has 34% less energy per unit volume compared to petrol. So in a mixture that is 10 % ethanol / 90 % petrol you end up [ if my theoretical maths is up to scratch ] with a mixture that gives you 96.6 % of the energy that you would have got from 100 % petrol. So you would only be ahead  if the cost of the mixture was less than 96.6 % of a "pure" blend.  e.g if 98 RON premium was $2 a litre, then a 90% 98 RON / 10 % ETHANOL would have to be $1.93 or less.  Of course this doesn't take into account any other harmful effects ethanol may have on "old" cars.           I'm going to bed now. [ I really need to get away from the computer ]   

Offline Mark Wheeler

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Re: With the long demise of leaded what type of fuels do you use?
« Reply #7 on: June 06, 2008, 04:38:28 PM »
Hi Guys

From what I have been told there is a simple rule about ethanol fuel. Your car must have a plastic petrol tank, if the petrol tank is steel the ethanol in the fuel will eventually eat it away.

Cheers

Mark

Online Bruce Reynolds

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Re: With the long demise of leaded what type of fuels do you use?
« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2008, 08:30:15 PM »
Hi Guys,   
From what I have been told there is a simple rule about ethanol fuel. Your car must have a plastic petrol tank, if the petrol tank is steel the ethanol in the fuel will eventually eat it away.  Cheers  Mark 
Thanks Mark,

That is very interesting, and I'll bet that a lot of people using the stuff wouldn't have a clue of what material their tank, or other parts will be made of.

And by the time their vehicles break down, it won't be them that has the inconvenience, or expense, but the poor person that has purchased it well down the track.   Or, the poorer kid trying to restore it after a long period of laying idle.

Bruce.>:D
Bruce Reynolds, Lindisfarne, TASMANIA
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
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Offline 60cdv

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Re: With the long demise of leaded what type of fuels do you use?
« Reply #9 on: June 06, 2008, 11:36:57 PM »
I've been running premium ultra-lethal petrol, with a squirt of valvesaver in the tank. if I run normal ULP, it pings no matter how far I retard the timing.
I'm trying an experiment on my daily driver (holden 6 red motor LPG only) and using diesel as an upper cylindr lube.
It's a lot cheaper than valve saver, etc. I know of a few rodders who have dedicated LPG cars with diesel lube, and so far so good.
Ivan, Adelaide
60 Coupe Deville
1947 Chev Aero Sedan
1936 Ford roadster
1960 FB Holden
1971 HG Holden

Online Bruce Reynolds

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Re: With the long demise of leaded what type of fuels do you use?
« Reply #10 on: June 07, 2008, 07:51:07 AM »

How does one get the Diesel into the LPG tank to give it the Upper Cylinder Lubrication?

Bruce.>:D
Bruce Reynolds, Lindisfarne, TASMANIA
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
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Offline Dave & Deb

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Re: With the long demise of leaded what type of fuels do you use?
« Reply #11 on: June 07, 2008, 12:29:26 PM »
Hello Bruce,

The valve saver kit is a seperate bottle fitted under the bonnet somewhere.  It uses a vacuum hose through an adjustable valve to regulate how much the intake sucks in.  LPG has a much higher octane than petrol so isn't a bad idea for high compression engines.  Straight propane has an octane rating of approx. 110.  Autogas is often a blend of butane and propane though so there can be variations in the quality.  More butane = less quality.

Dave   
1958 Fleetwood Series 75
1959 Six Window Sedan
1960 Series 62 Convertible
1968 Pontiac Parisienne Convertible

Hunter Valley NSW

Online Bruce Reynolds

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Re: With the long demise of leaded what type of fuels do you use?
« Reply #12 on: June 07, 2008, 01:00:19 PM »
Thanks Dave,

The same principle as Water Injection then.

I have used Water Injection with great success, but the engine was 12.5 to 1, and that was the only way I could keep it from pinking even with Super at the time.   Avgas was good, but too expensive.

Bruce.>:D
Bruce Reynolds, Lindisfarne, TASMANIA
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Offline Shorty64cad

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Re: With the long demise of leaded what type of fuels do you use?
« Reply #13 on: June 07, 2008, 07:10:31 PM »
Hi Folks,

Just getting back to the ethanol and steel petrol tank issue:  We have reason to use 100% ethanol on occasions where I work, and it comes in steel drums!  Sometimes it can be sitting around for more than a year, too, and if you look inside the drums, they show absolutely no sign of corrosion.  This isn't an endorsement of ethanol in fuel, by the way.  I won't touch the stuff for my Caddies. 

Just to add to the list:  I use high octane premium and valvesaver in the beasts.

Cheers,

Greg.
1969 Eldorado.
The Basin, Victoria.

Online Bruce Reynolds

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Re: With the long demise of leaded what type of fuels do you use?
« Reply #14 on: June 07, 2008, 07:36:20 PM »
G'day Greg,

I know that metal Petrol Tanks in cars are internally Tinned, so I was wondering if all Fuel Containers designed for Petrol are treated?

I know that Diesel Tanks are plain steel, and you can't run a Diesel Tank as a Petrol Tank, because of the corrosion eventualities.

When I was running Alcohol in my race car (Dragster), I had to constantly clean the Fuel System because of corrosion.   The system was always flushed out with petrol after the events.

Bruce.>:D
Bruce Reynolds, Lindisfarne, TASMANIA
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
(Past President Modified Chapter)